Participation
“Fundamental to democracy”: a discussion on public participation with Louise Macdonald OBE, Director General Communities
August 29, 2024 by Digital Engagement Team 2 Comments | Category Scottish Government insights, Senior leaders
We were able to catch up with one of Scottish Government’s Executive Team members Louise Macdonald OBE, Director General (DG) Communities.
It was fascinating to gain an insight into her views and unique position when it comes to the pressing matter of public participation and engagement. We touched on Louise’s experience and approach to participation as well as reflecting on her role as DG and her previous work with young people. We wrapped things up by talking about some of the challenges to good participation with the public and ways we can start tackling them.
Read the full interview below!
Why do you think it’s important for Scottish Government to engage and involve the public?
It’s absolutely fundamental to democracy. Democracy doesn’t stop at the ballot box and the public have the right not just to understand the decisions being made and how they are made but also to be an active part in the decision making process.
In every sphere of democracy, it is important that people have opportunities to be involved in the making of policy in meaningful ways that are accessible and inclusive. Going beyond the creation of policy it is important that the public is involved in looking critically at policy that has been developed and delivered. Asking the question “What does it feel like now that policy has been implemented and landed in the real world?” is so important. Feedback loops are so valuable.
How do you see your role in public participation as Director General Communities?
I am a champion of co-design and participation. Part of my role is that I need to set clear expectations of seeing it in my directorates; asking the right questions at the right times and supporting my directors and teams to do it well. I see my role as setting the standards and expectations high for good public engagement and helping to create the condition to allow it to flourish.
Impact assessment processes are not just a legal requirement, but also a powerful and practical tool to help involve communities in informing and shaping policy. We talk often about people or groups being hard to reach but they aren’t hard to reach – too often we make it difficult for them to be heard. It is so important that we continue to involve people in our decision making and involve them from the start.
As Director General it must be interesting to see a bird’s eye view of how participation affects government decision making. Do you have any examples of this you could share?
There are so many examples of great public participation work informing policy at the moment. I’m thinking about the:
- experience panels run by Social Security Scotland
- excellent work with stakeholders around New Scots refugee integration strategy
- engagement with communities on building standards and cladding
- Poverty and Inequality Commission as a scrutinising function embedded yet independent and involved all the way through to the first steps of focus groups
- Empowering Women Panel from the Nation Advisory Council on Women and Girls. Great piece of co-design that brings women and girls to the table as experts of their own intersectional experience
DG Communities also has the responsibility for the work Scottish Government does on Open Government. As members of the Open Government Partnership, we’re working alongside governments and civil society partners from all over the world who are committed to the values of openness, transparency, accountability, and public participation. Our Open Government team highlights good public participation practice and helps to create the conditions for this work to flourish.
We can be proud of what has been achieved in Open Government so far. The work of the team has been internationally acknowledged showing great commitment and engagement with others. Our focus on continually learning and growing has built solid foundations creating opportunities for us to take bigger steps forward. My ambition as a relatively new DG is to have a balance of both the small but impactful incremental progress while creating opportunities for those bigger steps to be taken.
Thinking about the work being done by our partners, it’s great to see examples of local government doing participatory budgeting in local communities and multiple examples of great co-design practice happening across the third sector.
Children and young people often fall into the category of “hard to reach” or “seldom heard”. What are your thoughts on engagement with children and young people?
Before joining Scottish Government as DG Communities, I was Chief Executive of Young Scot and set up the Young Scot co-design service which at the time was Scotland’s first co-design programme exclusively focussed on young people aged 11+. It raised the bar around engagement with young people and I’m proud of all we achieved – which I’m delighted to say continues to go from strength to strength! Co-design goes beyond the way in which consultations listen to the views of the public and instead involves people as equals in a collaborative process that shares power for multiple parties to construct policy development together (read more about the Spectrum of participation). When I first set it up, the critical lesson I learned was to start when you are still forming the question. If you wait around for when you know what you want you’ve already closed off opportunities for co-design. You start with the issue and the hundred and one questions you have.
When you don’t have the answers it’s a scary place but in that space is exactly where you can share questions, experiences and ideas and involve people meaningfully in the policymaking process.
By creating spaces for these conversations to happen, decision making becomes dynamic and the power can begin to shift and become a shared endeavour. Everyone is an expert of their own experience.
My final question is on the challenges in the way of public participation and how do you think we can tackle them?
We need to acknowledge that this work can be at risk in times of fiscal constraint – so we need to guard against that, because it is exactly at these times we need to engage with our diverse communities.
Secondly, we need to be mindful of “consultation fatigue” and listen to partners and members of the public about how we tackle that. I see a problem with overloading and overwhelming communities with consultations where we are asking similar questions a little too often. How might we gather and share people’s responses in a more intelligent way? It’s finely balanced – because views on different aspects of a subject can be nuanced and complex – but the tension around overload is real. So for me, finding solutions to these obstacles is about being creative with partnerships and approaches.
I mentioned earlier the importance of closing the loop on consultation, participation, co-design – not just doing the first half and leaving people to find out for themselves what happened as a result. We must be proactively going back to people to say “thank you, here’s the action that is now taking place and this is why. ” Treat people as equals and as part of the process in understanding is what generates trust and further engagement.
We have lots in Scotland to be incredibly proud of around participation and co-design, and huge amounts of expertise and experience in our communities. I’m constantly inspired, when I’m out and about across the country, hearing about not just the work done around participation, but the tangible and meaningful difference it has led to. So let’s keep creating the conditions for it to happen – and shout about the successes too!
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If you’re interested in how to engage with Scottish Government as a member of the public, you can respond to live consultations on the Consultation hub. Also take a look at our other Participation blog posts, follow @ScotGovEngage on X (formerly known as Twitter), and stay informed of new consultations and their outcomes by signing up to our Consultation newsletter.
Tags: participation, policymaking, public engagement
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